<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Linguistic Rhythm</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm</link>
	<description>Language in a word</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:06:06 +0100</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Paul Carley</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-34486</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Carley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2011 09:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-34486</guid>
		<description>Abdul - 

Your quote seems unlikely to be correct.

After an initial interest in instrumental phonetics, Daniel Jones went off it completely. Besides that, he&#039;s known for his emphasis on traditional ear training. The cardinal vowels are his, after all.

The version of the anecdote that I am familiar with involves Daniel Jones setting off on some fieldwork and a journalist asking him what instruments he would be taking. 

Jones was Abercrombie&#039;s teacher of course, so the version of the anecdote that you give seems unlikely.

As for instrumental phonetics, it&#039;s essential these days if you want to do phonetics professionally (as your job, I mean) in an English-speaking country. As I found to my disappointment some years back! The fact of the matter is that university lecturers must publish to get and keep their jobs, and you can&#039;t publish anything based on impressionistic analysis these days - it won&#039;t wash. Although I consider myself an accomplished practical phonetician (especially by today&#039;s standards) and an average instrumental phonetician, I agree that this is the way it must be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abdul &#8211; </p>
<p>Your quote seems unlikely to be correct.</p>
<p>After an initial interest in instrumental phonetics, Daniel Jones went off it completely. Besides that, he&#8217;s known for his emphasis on traditional ear training. The cardinal vowels are his, after all.</p>
<p>The version of the anecdote that I am familiar with involves Daniel Jones setting off on some fieldwork and a journalist asking him what instruments he would be taking. </p>
<p>Jones was Abercrombie&#8217;s teacher of course, so the version of the anecdote that you give seems unlikely.</p>
<p>As for instrumental phonetics, it&#8217;s essential these days if you want to do phonetics professionally (as your job, I mean) in an English-speaking country. As I found to my disappointment some years back! The fact of the matter is that university lecturers must publish to get and keep their jobs, and you can&#8217;t publish anything based on impressionistic analysis these days &#8211; it won&#8217;t wash. Although I consider myself an accomplished practical phonetician (especially by today&#8217;s standards) and an average instrumental phonetician, I agree that this is the way it must be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Science and Language</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-28160</link>
		<dc:creator>Science and Language</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-28160</guid>
		<description>[...] from the Linguism blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from the Linguism blog [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Kochanski</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-28159</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Kochanski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-28159</guid>
		<description>Doing phonetics without machines -- and that means computers, these days -- isn&#039;t going to get you anywhere.   Don&#039;t get me wrong: ears are valuable tools, but they have three problems:

1. They are different on each different person.   So, if you do research with only your ears, that research has a lot less value when you are elsewhere, because no one else can really duplicate your ears.

2. They can hear rhythms, but they cannot tell you what rhythm *is*.  Do it with a machine, and you will eventually find out that it is (perhaps) some particular patterns of loudness and duration (or something like that).   Do it with your ears, and you can hear it, but you can only define it by saying that it has that certain je ne sais quoi.

3. They do not do statistics.  You can only hear the rhythm of one person at a time: you cannot hear the average rhythm of a language.

That&#039;s not to say that machines (alone) don&#039;t have equally large problems.  In fact, what we really want to do is to connect the subjective perceptions that we all have to the objective reality out there.   That takes both humans and machines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing phonetics without machines &#8212; and that means computers, these days &#8212; isn&#8217;t going to get you anywhere.   Don&#8217;t get me wrong: ears are valuable tools, but they have three problems:</p>
<p>1. They are different on each different person.   So, if you do research with only your ears, that research has a lot less value when you are elsewhere, because no one else can really duplicate your ears.</p>
<p>2. They can hear rhythms, but they cannot tell you what rhythm *is*.  Do it with a machine, and you will eventually find out that it is (perhaps) some particular patterns of loudness and duration (or something like that).   Do it with your ears, and you can hear it, but you can only define it by saying that it has that certain je ne sais quoi.</p>
<p>3. They do not do statistics.  You can only hear the rhythm of one person at a time: you cannot hear the average rhythm of a language.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that machines (alone) don&#8217;t have equally large problems.  In fact, what we really want to do is to connect the subjective perceptions that we all have to the objective reality out there.   That takes both humans and machines.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Ball</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-15797</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-15797</guid>
		<description>Hi Graham -
just found your blog!

Some idle thoughts - having lived 9 years now in the US, I&#039;m beginning to think that that US speech (esp young persons) is moving towards syllable timed. The rhythm certainly seems different than British English. (Also all the young females are adopted markedly  creaky voice quality, but that&#039;s another story)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Graham -<br />
just found your blog!</p>
<p>Some idle thoughts &#8211; having lived 9 years now in the US, I&#8217;m beginning to think that that US speech (esp young persons) is moving towards syllable timed. The rhythm certainly seems different than British English. (Also all the young females are adopted markedly  creaky voice quality, but that&#8217;s another story)!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-2487</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-2487</guid>
		<description>Paolo -
If you read my post again, I think you will find that I did not suggest that there are three types of rhythm in English. I DID suggest that across the languages of the world there may be more than the two types traditionally described as &quot;syllable-timed&quot; and &quot;stress-timed&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paolo -<br />
If you read my post again, I think you will find that I did not suggest that there are three types of rhythm in English. I DID suggest that across the languages of the world there may be more than the two types traditionally described as &#8220;syllable-timed&#8221; and &#8220;stress-timed&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paolo paz</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator>paolo paz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-2033</guid>
		<description>what are the 3 types of rhythm in english?...please send me your answer....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what are the 3 types of rhythm in english?&#8230;please send me your answer&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Abdul</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm/comment-page-1#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 10:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/linguistic-rhythm#comment-766</guid>
		<description>You are right. It is said (if my quote is correct) that when Daniel Jones asked Abercrombie one day: &quot;Which machine are you going to use for your phonetic field-work, David?&quot; Abercrombie pointed to his ears. 

In phonetics, machines  can just help us to consolidate our perceptual  findings. We cannot always depend on experimental findings. It is unfortunate that, these days phoneticians rely solely on experimental evidence and they ignore other perceptual evidence. In fact many phoneticians these days do not know basic phonetic measures like Cardinal Vowels etc. When I asked the late Peter Ladefoged: &quot;What do your students in American universities use if they want to refer to different vowel qualities in two or more regional dialects?&quot; His answer was&quot; &quot;They compare formants, plotting on vowel diagrams!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right. It is said (if my quote is correct) that when Daniel Jones asked Abercrombie one day: &#8220;Which machine are you going to use for your phonetic field-work, David?&#8221; Abercrombie pointed to his ears. </p>
<p>In phonetics, machines  can just help us to consolidate our perceptual  findings. We cannot always depend on experimental findings. It is unfortunate that, these days phoneticians rely solely on experimental evidence and they ignore other perceptual evidence. In fact many phoneticians these days do not know basic phonetic measures like Cardinal Vowels etc. When I asked the late Peter Ladefoged: &#8220;What do your students in American universities use if they want to refer to different vowel qualities in two or more regional dialects?&#8221; His answer was&#8221; &#8220;They compare formants, plotting on vowel diagrams!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

