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	<title>Comments on: Iranian</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian</link>
	<description>Language in a word</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 00:04:18 +0200</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/comment-page-1#comment-19164</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=384#comment-19164</guid>
		<description>English should do whatever its native speakers feel most comfortable with, precisely as every other language that I know does. Anglicisation will take whatever form most people are happiest with.

And now to my bete noir: Afghanistan. Certain BBC newsreaders of South Asian background pronounce it according, presumably, to some rule of some subcontinental language, with long a&#039;s and the gh voiced like the ch in &#039;loch&#039;. They continue to do so, despite public criticism, and in defiance of the standard English pronunciation (short a&#039;s, gh as hard g), presumably because the newsroom producers say nothing.

Let us contrast a hypothetical BBC newsreader of French background. She/he pronounces &#039;Paris&#039; the French way the first time it comes up in the news, and she/he is told, I have no doubt, immediately after the broadcast that that is not correct in English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>English should do whatever its native speakers feel most comfortable with, precisely as every other language that I know does. Anglicisation will take whatever form most people are happiest with.</p>
<p>And now to my bete noir: Afghanistan. Certain BBC newsreaders of South Asian background pronounce it according, presumably, to some rule of some subcontinental language, with long a&#8217;s and the gh voiced like the ch in &#8216;loch&#8217;. They continue to do so, despite public criticism, and in defiance of the standard English pronunciation (short a&#8217;s, gh as hard g), presumably because the newsroom producers say nothing.</p>
<p>Let us contrast a hypothetical BBC newsreader of French background. She/he pronounces &#8216;Paris&#8217; the French way the first time it comes up in the news, and she/he is told, I have no doubt, immediately after the broadcast that that is not correct in English.</p>
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		<title>By: Athel Cornish-Bowden</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/comment-page-1#comment-9864</link>
		<dc:creator>Athel Cornish-Bowden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=384#comment-9864</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;English should preserve the vowels of the language whenever possible&lt;/i&gt;.

This strikes me as a completely arbitrary &quot;rule&quot; made up on the spot. What possible justification does it have? Are there any languages that follow such a rule: German doesn&#039;t, as the &lt;i&gt;e&lt;/i&gt; in &lt;i&gt;englisch&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t sound like the &lt;i&gt;e&lt;/i&gt; in the original, though most German-speakers are perfectly able to pronounce it; French doesn&#039;t, as neither of the vowels in &lt;i&gt;anglais&lt;/i&gt; sound like those in the original, though most French-speakers are perfectly able to pronounce it; Spanish doesn&#039;t, as the &lt;i&gt;é&lt;/i&gt; in &lt;i&gt;inglés&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t sound like the &lt;i&gt;i&lt;/i&gt; in the original; Russian doesn&#039;t, as the &lt;i&gt;а&lt;/i&gt; in &lt;i&gt;англиский&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t sound like the &lt;i&gt;e&lt;/i&gt; in the original; etc., etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>English should preserve the vowels of the language whenever possible</i>.</p>
<p>This strikes me as a completely arbitrary &#8220;rule&#8221; made up on the spot. What possible justification does it have? Are there any languages that follow such a rule: German doesn&#8217;t, as the <i>e</i> in <i>englisch</i> doesn&#8217;t sound like the <i>e</i> in the original, though most German-speakers are perfectly able to pronounce it; French doesn&#8217;t, as neither of the vowels in <i>anglais</i> sound like those in the original, though most French-speakers are perfectly able to pronounce it; Spanish doesn&#8217;t, as the <i>é</i> in <i>inglés</i> doesn&#8217;t sound like the <i>i</i> in the original; Russian doesn&#8217;t, as the <i>а</i> in <i>англиский</i> doesn&#8217;t sound like the <i>e</i> in the original; etc., etc.</p>
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		<title>By: lukas</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/comment-page-1#comment-9576</link>
		<dc:creator>lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=384#comment-9576</guid>
		<description>If we want to refrain from anglicizing, shouldn&#039;t we say &quot;Irani&quot; /irɑːni/ instead of &quot;Iranian&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we want to refrain from anglicizing, shouldn&#8217;t we say &#8220;Irani&#8221; /irɑːni/ instead of &#8220;Iranian&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/comment-page-1#comment-9567</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=384#comment-9567</guid>
		<description>&quot;Interested&quot; doesn&#039;t like my example of Panama/-nian, but how about Bahamas - where the derived form, Bahamian, equally changes its stressed vowel from /ɑː/ to /eı/? There can be no question of there being a carry-over from a different language in this case.

I don&#039;t understand his point about Pakistan - I have no problem with either /ɑː/ or /æ/ in the final syllable. Pres. Obama&#039;s inconsistency between Pakistan and Afghanistan simply shows this variation. Incidentally, the usual Urdu pronunciation of Pakistan has /ɑː/ in the first syllable as well, and this is what is recommended to BBC newsreaders - but note it is &#039;recommended&#039; and not imposed on them.

&quot;Interested&quot; twice uses the word &quot;should&quot;, implying a rather prescriptive attitude, which I was careful to avoid in my original post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Interested&#8221; doesn&#8217;t like my example of Panama/-nian, but how about Bahamas &#8211; where the derived form, Bahamian, equally changes its stressed vowel from /ɑː/ to /eı/? There can be no question of there being a carry-over from a different language in this case.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand his point about Pakistan &#8211; I have no problem with either /ɑː/ or /æ/ in the final syllable. Pres. Obama&#8217;s inconsistency between Pakistan and Afghanistan simply shows this variation. Incidentally, the usual Urdu pronunciation of Pakistan has /ɑː/ in the first syllable as well, and this is what is recommended to BBC newsreaders &#8211; but note it is &#8216;recommended&#8217; and not imposed on them.</p>
<p>&#8220;Interested&#8221; twice uses the word &#8220;should&#8221;, implying a rather prescriptive attitude, which I was careful to avoid in my original post.</p>
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		<title>By: interested</title>
		<link>http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/iranian/comment-page-1#comment-9562</link>
		<dc:creator>interested</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=384#comment-9562</guid>
		<description>Using Panama is actually a good example of a bad argument.  Panamanians refer to themselves as panameños, so *panamaños wouldn&#039;t even make sense.  It should be Irahnians not Iraynians. English should preserve the vowels of the language whenever possible (unless historically dictated otherwise) Further I would argue you could say EYE-ray-nian or Ee-rah-nian, but not a mix of those two: anglicize it or don&#039;t anglicize it.  (fwiw: ee should probably be ih)

by extension it should be pakistahni not pakist&#039;annie&#039; - made more interesting by the fact that President Obama says &quot;Pakistahn&quot; but says &quot;Afghanistann&quot; -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using Panama is actually a good example of a bad argument.  Panamanians refer to themselves as panameños, so *panamaños wouldn&#8217;t even make sense.  It should be Irahnians not Iraynians. English should preserve the vowels of the language whenever possible (unless historically dictated otherwise) Further I would argue you could say EYE-ray-nian or Ee-rah-nian, but not a mix of those two: anglicize it or don&#8217;t anglicize it.  (fwiw: ee should probably be ih)</p>
<p>by extension it should be pakistahni not pakist&#8217;annie&#8217; &#8211; made more interesting by the fact that President Obama says &#8220;Pakistahn&#8221; but says &#8220;Afghanistann&#8221; -</p>
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