Comments on: Fixed and Free http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free Language in a word Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:06:06 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Graham http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13475 Graham Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:17:13 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13475 Adrian - Maybe de'cade hasn't reached Australia yet, but the LPD British English survey showed a 14% preference for this pronunciation even in 1990. Adrian – Maybe de’cade hasn’t reached Australia yet, but the LPD British English survey showed a 14% preference for this pronunciation even in 1990.

]]> By: Adrian Morgan http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13457 Adrian Morgan Mon, 26 Oct 2009 03:27:05 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13457 I am surprised by your report that some people are stressing "decade" on the second syllable. I don't believe I've ever heard that, and wonder if there's ever a confusion with "decayed". With several of the other examples, it's the new pronunciation that I'm familiar with and the old one that seems strange, which is probably not a surprise coming from someone born in the late seventies. Just to give one example, "contrast" for me has always been stressed on the first syllable, noun and verb alike. I am surprised by your report that some people are stressing “decade” on the second syllable. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard that, and wonder if there’s ever a confusion with “decayed”.

With several of the other examples, it’s the new pronunciation that I’m familiar with and the old one that seems strange, which is probably not a surprise coming from someone born in the late seventies. Just to give one example, “contrast” for me has always been stressed on the first syllable, noun and verb alike.

]]> By: John Cowan http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13377 John Cowan Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:42:25 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13377 This is what the 2008 draft revision of JULY now says: The word was usually stressed on the first syllable in the early modern period, as the form July-flower, due to folk etymology (see gamma forms at GILLYFLOWER n.), implies. The orthoepists Peter Levins (1570) and Elisha Coles (late 17th cent.) both include the word among those which have unstressed -y, and Johnson (1755), W. Johnston Pronouncing & Spelling Dict. (1764), and J. Walker Dict. Answering Purposes of Rhyming (1775) all indicate stress on the first syllable (Johnston also marking the y as ‘long’). Both occurrences of the word in Shakespeare are so stressed, as are most metrical examples down to the late 18th cent. (compare quots. 1704 at alpha, 1736 at alpha, 1781 at Compounds 1). Stress on the first syllable still occas. occurs in Scotland. This is what the 2008 draft revision of JULY now says:

The word was usually stressed on the first syllable in the early modern period, as the form July-flower, due to folk etymology (see gamma forms at GILLYFLOWER n.), implies. The orthoepists Peter Levins (1570) and Elisha Coles (late 17th cent.) both include the word among those which have unstressed -y, and Johnson (1755), W. Johnston Pronouncing & Spelling Dict. (1764), and J. Walker Dict. Answering Purposes of Rhyming (1775) all indicate stress on the first syllable (Johnston also marking the y as ‘long’). Both occurrences of the word in Shakespeare are so stressed, as are most metrical examples down to the late 18th cent. (compare quots. 1704 at alpha, 1736 at alpha, 1781 at Compounds 1). Stress on the first syllable still occas. occurs in Scotland.

]]> By: Graham http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13334 Graham Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:42:49 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13334 John M. - in your example sentence, I don't think it's only stress clash that makes you stress the first syllable of import/export, but also possibly that you want to emphasise the direction of trade. This is a feature of English that would be impossible in languages like Italian and Spanish (as John Wells was saying the other day <a href="http://www.phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, under the heading "nuclear-free zones"), where the stress truly is fixed, and shifted contrastive stress is not allowed. Scots (and maybe others) often stress "July" on the first syllable. After giving the various spellings over the centuries, OED1 says "The latter form [which one does it mean? GP] was still accented <em>Juˑly</em> as late as Dr Johnson's time; it is still /ˈdʒuːli/ in Southern Sc.; the modern Eng. pronunciation is abnormal and unexplained". This was probably written by Murray between 1899 and 1901, when he was working on I, J, K. John M. – in your example sentence, I don’t think it’s only stress clash that makes you stress the first syllable of import/export, but also possibly that you want to emphasise the direction of trade. This is a feature of English that would be impossible in languages like Italian and Spanish (as John Wells was saying the other day here, under the heading “nuclear-free zones”), where the stress truly is fixed, and shifted contrastive stress is not allowed.

Scots (and maybe others) often stress “July” on the first syllable. After giving the various spellings over the centuries, OED1 says “The latter form [which one does it mean? GP] was still accented Juˑly as late as Dr Johnson’s time; it is still /ˈdʒuːli/ in Southern Sc.; the modern Eng. pronunciation is abnormal and unexplained”. This was probably written by Murray between 1899 and 1901, when he was working on I, J, K.

]]> By: Athel Cornish-Bowden http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13332 Athel Cornish-Bowden Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:44:58 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13332 I don't know if it was just a personal idiosyncrasy, or a consequence of being born in 1875, but my grandmother systematically stressed "sometimes" on the second syllable, reducing the first vowel to a schwa. I don’t know if it was just a personal idiosyncrasy, or a consequence of being born in 1875, but my grandmother systematically stressed “sometimes” on the second syllable, reducing the first vowel to a schwa.

]]> By: John Maidment http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13316 John Maidment Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:51:11 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13316 One of course has to be very aware of the effects of stress shift. For me the lexical stress in the verbs "import" and "export" is definitely on the final syllable, but in a sentence like: We must ___ more! I am sure i would shift the stress to the first syllable to avoid a stress clash. On another matter -- I have a vague memory of hearing or being told that the word "July" was at one time regularly pronounced to be a homophone of the name "Julie" and that (or did I dream this?) there is a very early sound-recording of Tennyson, where he uses this pronunciation. One of course has to be very aware of the effects of stress shift. For me the lexical stress in the verbs “import” and “export” is definitely on the final syllable, but in a sentence like:

We must ___ more!

I am sure i would shift the stress to the first syllable to avoid a stress clash.

On another matter — I have a vague memory of hearing or being told that the word “July” was at one time regularly pronounced to be a homophone of the name “Julie” and that (or did I dream this?) there is a very early sound-recording of Tennyson, where he uses this pronunciation.

]]> By: Graham http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13278 Graham Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:24:27 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13278 John - Yes, I have played for rehearsals for many G & S operettas, but more recently than "Iolanthe", "vaGARy" is the only pronunciation given in the 5th edition of the Concise Oxford, in 1964, and "quanDARy" is given as an alternative there as well. By the 7th edition (1981), "quanDARy" has disappeared altogether, but "vaGARy" is still hanging on as an alternative. I've just consulted the vocal score of "Iolanthe", and note that in the song, which has six rhymes in each verse ending in '-ary', only 'Andersen's Li<em>bra</em>ry' has italics, to show that this is an unusual pronunciation. John – Yes, I have played for rehearsals for many G & S operettas, but more recently than “Iolanthe”, “vaGARy” is the only pronunciation given in the 5th edition of the Concise Oxford, in 1964, and “quanDARy” is given as an alternative there as well. By the 7th edition (1981), “quanDARy” has disappeared altogether, but “vaGARy” is still hanging on as an alternative. I’ve just consulted the vocal score of “Iolanthe”, and note that in the song, which has six rhymes in each verse ending in ‘-ary’, only ‘Andersen’s Library’ has italics, to show that this is an unusual pronunciation.

]]> By: dw http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13272 dw Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:12:04 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13272 "Controversy" is, of course, still stressed on the first syllable on my adopted side of the pond. There is an interesting blog posting on stress differences between the US and UK here: http://www.yek.me.uk/archive18.html#blog177 “Controversy” is, of course, still stressed on the first syllable on my adopted side of the pond. There is an interesting blog posting on stress differences between the US and UK here: http://www.yek.me.uk/archive18.html#blog177

]]> By: John Cowan http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/fixed-and-free/comment-page-1#comment-13271 John Cowan Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:02:17 +0000 http://www.linguism.co.uk/?p=461#comment-13271 Across the Water we are as usual more conservative: CONtroversy remains completely fixed here. <i>Decade</i> shows a more interesting story: /ˈdekeɪd/ is dominant with /dəˈkeɪd/ still a fairly uncommon variant, but /ˈdekəd/ is still standard in the sense 'ten Hail Marys out of a rosary'. I suspect this is also true of Catholic use in Britain and Ireland. INTegral is universal in mathematical senses, whether talking of integration or integers, but inTEGral has some currency in other senses. I doubt if it is taking over, though. PREferable is dominant, though preFERable is also heard. On the other hand, comBATant and comMUNal seem to be far more common than the alternatives. "Vagary" and "quandary"? Do I detect a hidden Gilbert and Sullivan fan? Across the Water we are as usual more conservative: CONtroversy remains completely fixed here. Decade shows a more interesting story: /ˈdekeɪd/ is dominant with /dəˈkeɪd/ still a fairly uncommon variant, but /ˈdekəd/ is still standard in the sense ‘ten Hail Marys out of a rosary’. I suspect this is also true of Catholic use in Britain and Ireland.

INTegral is universal in mathematical senses, whether talking of integration or integers, but inTEGral has some currency in other senses. I doubt if it is taking over, though. PREferable is dominant, though preFERable is also heard. On the other hand, comBATant and comMUNal seem to be far more common than the alternatives.

“Vagary” and “quandary”? Do I detect a hidden Gilbert and Sullivan fan?

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