Comments on: Abergavenny, etc

By: Chris Hebbron

Chris Hebbron — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:13:52 +0000

COCKBURN

[You left the thrid line out, so here is the full rhyme:

Said King Charles to his Court,
“I enjoy a good port,
But it must be a wine that’s just right.”
Said a courtier game, “If I tell you the name
Of the best, will you make me a knight?”
The king nodded his head,
And the courtier said,
“Cockburns Port is the port for a king.
But remember to say it without the CK”,
And they all cried
“Long Live Harles the Ing!”

By: Duncan Hill

Duncan Hill — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:24:56 +0000

“Nowadays, the spelling pronunciation has prevailed: /ˈsaɪrənsestə(r)”

Only by ignorant incomers or tourists that have never heard the pronunciation, only seen it written.

The most common *local* pronunciations are “si-ren-ster”, “siss-is-ster” and “siss-i-ter”.

By: Michael Lamb

Michael Lamb — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:40:26 +0000

BTW most of them have of course become sink ports since the sea sank.

By: Michael Lamb

Michael Lamb — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:58:05 +0000

I have never heard anything but sink, tho I was born and bred in one of the Cinque Ports, and even had a great-great-grandfather who was a “baron of the Sink Ports”, as the mayors were called that. I would suppose there have been sink of them pretty much from the start, and that sank ports is a typically hypercorrective Dictionary of Blunders blunder.

By: Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:57:42 +0000

Having never heard anyone talk about the Cinque Ports I have always pronounced them “sank”.

By: James D

James D — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:54:03 +0000

Then there’s the large city in northern England that the media seem to think is pronounced /ˈnjukɑsəl/, but anyone who’s ever been there knows it’s /njuˈkæsəl/. It’s amusing that the media-ese doesn’t even get the stress in the right place.

By: Michael Lamb

Michael Lamb — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:55:43 +0000

John,

What, not even prons which threaten my melancholy acceptance of all these spelling-pronunciations on John Wells’s blog? – “English pronunciation may eventually get back in synch with English spelling, and the spelling reformers will be out of a job.” They will be back in business if even the BBC espouses these UNspelling-pronunciations, of which juːˈtɒksɪtə is a particularly egregious oneǃ

I guess “what people thought of the name way back then” was that that was an abomination, and that Graham’s family were silly asses to use that pronunciation. I take his Potteries ˈʌtʃɪtə to be authoritative. I shall adopt it. My ˈʊtʃɪtə must have been from further up North. You can hear sound files of both on the internet.

The 1911 ed of Enc Brit says “The name of the town is locally Uxeter, or an approximate pronunciation” but it has mysteriously disappeared from my 80s ed. and from subsequent eds. They must have got cold feet. Wikipedia on the other hand has a stab at it (exclusively for rhotics, judging by the punctilio of the ɨ): juːˈtɒksɨtər.

By: John Maidment

John Maidment — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:17:59 +0000

Michael,

Far be it from me to inveigh against any pron. I thought it might be interesting to see what people thought of the name way back then, seeing that there seem to be so many current-ish versions.

By: John Maidment

John Maidment — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:15:27 +0000

I have also heard /ʌtɒksɪtə/ and /ʊtɒksɪtə/. BBC PDBD (1983) has the first of these.

By: Graham

Graham — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:32:11 +0000

Michael – coming from the Potteries, I was always aware that Uttoxeter could be /ˈʌtʃɪtə/ locally, but I and my family (trying to be posh?) went along with the BBC in saying /juːˈtɒksɪtə/.